I’m still upset

"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo) 01/18/2018 at 09:34 • Filed to: None

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I’ll never stop being disappointed about Elio motors. Such a simple idea. Ruined by legality. There’s a possibility that in the next five months my 2 miles commute will turn into a 30 mile commute and if that were the case I would love a car that got 70 mpg with a full warranty. I really feel bad for the people who threw their hard earn cash at this company to reserve a car that will never be made. I was reminded of this today because 4 years ago today I shared a Jalopnik arrival about the Elio on Facebook.

They wasted do much time and energy into getting it legally registered as a car rather than a motorcycle. I think they should have just went into production and told the people in states with a helmet law to either wear one or deal with the rist of getting a ticket. In my home state of Wisconsin it wouldn’t have been an issue because we don’t have a helmet law anyway. Kind of funny the state will force you to wear a seat belt, but not wear a helmet on a motorcycle.

TheRealBicycleBuck > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 09:48

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It would be great if they considered selling it as a kit car. That circumvents many of the legal requirements. Sell it as an 80% roller and partner with local shops to do the final 20% for those who aren’t willing or can’t finish the build themselves.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > TheRealBicycleBuck 01/18/2018 at 09:49

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Yes, and offer the 1.0 ecoboost as an engine option!

Nerd-Vol > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 09:51

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Thanks for reminding me of this sadness. It was a cool idea.

TheRealBicycleBuck > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 09:55

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When I first saw the Elio, I thought it looked like an updated version of the Tri-Magnum.  

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 10:05

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To me, the moment they wanted to develop their own drivetrain was the moment I knew they were screwed. That sucked up so much R&D and in the end amounted to nothing...

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/18/2018 at 10:14

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Yeah, at the same time the 20 year old GM components they started with wouldn’t have beeen great either.

Future next gen S2000 owner > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 10:25

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That’s not a motorcycle. It’s a car.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 10:32

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I wanted an Aptera, that whole thing was bullshit. A hybrid Aptera would have been amazing.

So Shiney. So Chrome! So Frunky > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/18/2018 at 10:41

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There was no deciding. They had a manual trans lined up from Aisin and had planned to buy a small engine but that manufacturer went under. Building their own engine was the last resort because a workable engine could not be bought. You would be surprised how difficult it is to just buy certain major automotive components when you are effectively a nobody with an idea. Especially when you need to pay ‘on delivery’. To someone like Ford it was a better bet they would build a bunch of engines and Elio would just go under and they would be left with the sunk cost of building those engines

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 10:43

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I still find it sad as well...it’s a neat concept and I still hope they succeed...but it’s looking doubtful!

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Future next gen S2000 owner 01/18/2018 at 10:46

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Not a cording to the US government, anything with less than 4 wheels has to be registered as a motorcycle. Which is bull

Spanfeller is a twat > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 10:50

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I can see exactly why they wanted it registered as a car

Although, it could be said that they were a small companyand should’ve thought like one. Realizing that even if a lot of very populated states have laws regarding helmets, many states don’t and those states have a large enough market!

So much effort that could’ve been saved for the next gen when they actually had cash!

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Spanfeller is a twat 01/18/2018 at 11:01

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Exactly plus I’m sure plenty of people would have bought despite the helmet laws and either ignored the requirement or got a small open face helmet

Spanfeller is a twat > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 11:12

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I think that if a cop gave you a ticket for a helmet while driving an elio, its the cop being unreasonable.

Its a shame really because we need small cars not big ass trucks!

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Spanfeller is a twat 01/18/2018 at 11:16

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Indeed.

Mercedes Streeter > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 11:32

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Then it would have to pass safety tests, and I bet it certainly wouldn’t.

Mercedes Streeter > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 11:41

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The story of Elio is an interesting one for me. Basically, Elio wants their car to be considered a car, but exempt from crash testing because it’s sans a wheel (whatever happened to that 5 star crash safety rating?) and if it has to be a motorcycle, exempt from motorcycle regs.

A proposed (though I assume it’s now dead) rule from the NHTSA would have defined it plainly:

- If your three-wheeler is a car sans a wheel, then it gets car regs.

- If your three-wheeler is a motorcycle plus a wheel, then it gets motorcycle regs.

I think that’s a fair way to go about it, else you’re going to have lots of companies producing terribly unsafe trikes just because they can avoid regulations.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Spanfeller is a twat 01/18/2018 at 11:48

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Are we to infer by that untitled map that it represents helmet laws? If so, the color scheme shows the map-maker’s bias against helmets ( and surviving a motorcycle wreck) .

Mercedes Streeter > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/18/2018 at 11:48

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To me, it’s when Paul produced his SEC filing and noted the following:

He’s getting paid $250k a year for a company that exists almost entirely on reservations.

The only way the car will reach the advertised price is if they sell 60k units in the first year and 250k units a year starting the second year.

Despite theoretically only being months from going on sale, Elio has yet to set up anything even remotely resembling a dealer network, training for Pep Boys, employees, or even tooling for that factory.

The whole venture technically hinges on a loan designed for EVs and other alternate fuel vehicles.

They need the NHTSA or the States to establish a sort of safety “no man’s land” so they won’t have to dump further costs into safety/having some owners wear helmets.

I mean, I get for shooting for the stars and all that...but it seems like he’s trying to deliver on promises that cannot be met. 250k units a year is insane for a new company.

Spanfeller is a twat > TheRealBicycleBuck 01/18/2018 at 11:52

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The creator doesn’t want to be told what to do!

I hope she or he can enjoy the freedom to fuck about with ones own health for a long time before they inevitably fall.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > So Shiney. So Chrome! So Frunky 01/18/2018 at 12:18

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I stand 100% by what I said - if the people they approached with their plans said “No, we can’t sell you a modern engine and no, we’re not making you one without a significant assload of cash up front” having to fall back on “redesigning the geo metro engine” was a sign that they needed to give the whole thing a rethink. Maybe find a new way to round up investment capital or see if they should rethink their vehicle to accept a different engine that they might actually get.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Mercedes Streeter 01/18/2018 at 12:19

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Maybe this is why no one wanted to sell them an engine...

So Shiney. So Chrome! So Frunky > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/18/2018 at 12:33

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Capital was really the problem. Assuming he could just have bought an engine, setting up the assembly line and getting that running was 10's of millions he didn’t have.

punkgoose17 > Mercedes Streeter 01/18/2018 at 12:34

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Selling 250k units the second year was absolutely insane. At best they would have stayed even from year 1 to year 2.

punkgoose17 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 12:38

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I was sad this failed too. They started with a tube frame design which I don’t think lends itself to mass production in the quantities they wanted. Very late they changed it to a stamped steel frame which is a big redesign. They needed a low start up cost plan for production.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > punkgoose17 01/18/2018 at 12:43

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Yup big dreams and Relatively small wallets 

DipodomysDeserti > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 13:25

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Most states require a motorcycle endorsement to ride a moto, and you have to take most tests on a two wheeled bike. That’s most likely why they didn’t want to sell it as a motorcycle.

ranwhenparked > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 20:30

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I don’t think the legal issues had much of anything to do with the failure of the company (though they still haven’t *technically* failed, yet). It isn’t being sold as a car, its being marketed as an “auto cycle” in states that have passed the Elio-sponsored legislation to create that category, and as a motorcycle in the states that haven’t.

Elio’s failure is the fault of Elio’s management, dicking around with building their own engine and spending too much time trying to hit every one of their initial promises instead of getting something on the market that was close enough and working on improving it once revenue started coming in.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 01/18/2018 at 21:37

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I wish they just made the gas version. with a weight and drag that small it wouldn’t have taken that much to power it.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 01/18/2018 at 21:39

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I always thaough this was super funky. like a modern day isetta.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 01/18/2018 at 22:05

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They were planning a hybrid and a 4 door.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) 01/18/2018 at 22:33

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Evey once in a while, I mentally try to imagine what a four wheel Aptera would look like. So much interesting potential there.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > BaconSandwich is tasty. 01/18/2018 at 22:37

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People talk about efficiency but aero is the primary obstacle, literally. All this talk about engines when a car that would be primarily for highway commuting and getting around would be so much more efficient, give it a system like a prius for town and it would be efficient in city driving as well.